Is BMW outgunned? Next Gen C AMG to get 5.5 TT + C63 Black Series may be coming

[fundahl]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind one of the monsters but BMW might put out a 500+ hp turbo I6! That would be the best platform IMO, with a low weight.

That could be easily done if BMW wasn't so pussy about turbo-lag. It's annoying to see all this bragging and claims of "full torque from 1400-5000rpm!". Great, so I have all my torque when I cruise, but not when I want to actually participate as a sports car?

[alq80]

That could be easily done if BMW wasn't so pussy about turbo-lag. It's annoying to see all this bragging and claims of "full torque from 1400-5000rpm!". Great, so I have all my torque when I cruise, but not when I want to actually participate as a sports car?

they should do what porsche did and go VTG... (almost) no lag!

[Sticky]

they should do what porsche did and go VTG... (almost) no lag!

The Porsche's still have lag. VTG seems to be more marketing than anything else. The GTR doesn't have VTG yet has less lag than the 997 turbo.

[Remonster]

The Porsche's still have lag. VTG seems to be more marketing than anything else. The GTR doesn't have VTG yet has less lag than the 997 turbo.

They should do whatever the hell it is Nissan did with the GTR, a friend of mine is in the market and test drove one so he confirmed what the reviews have been saying, he said that thing really does have almost no lag.

Back on topic I have to say, it does seem like AMG has set the bar quite high for the next generation, I hope BMW and even Audi can match them it's no fun having one car that dominates the others.

[Sticky]

They should do whatever the hell it is Nissan did with the GTR, a friend of mine is in the market and test drove one so he confirmed what the reviews have been saying, he said that thing really does have almost no lag.

Back on topic I have to say, it does seem like AMG has set the bar quite high for the next generation, I hope BMW and even Audi can match them it's no fun having one car that dominates the others.

In the past we never had to worry about BMW. Even with smaller motors they made them more efficient, stronger, higher revving, better than the AMG's. That was always we could go back to, even though we didn't have the raw size we had a top engineering effort that was renowned the world over.

Now, it is just a question of boost. So, will BMW be able to cram enough boost into their 3.0 liter with valvetronic and direct injection to seriously contend with a 5.5 liter twin turbo AMG V8? No, now displacement and boost are working against them.

Thank God for the Porsche GT3.

[Remonster]

hahah amen to the Porsche comment, there's a 997 Carrera S sitting next to my 135i in the garage and that thing is just astonishingly good. I got a ride in a GT3 at an autocross and that was enough to show me that it's on an even higher level than our 'lowly' 911.

[alq80]

It's true that the 997 turbo has some lag (my father owns one) but in all honesty, there is something about the pull you get from the turbos kicking in and blasting you on your way which NA can never do for me anymore... like always knowing there's more power coming! BUT, BMW can make a 3.0-4.0L I6 with incredible an incredible power:weight ratio... that way they wont hurt the M6 or M5s, but still measure up to the C63.

Thing is, if the C class is going to be similar in cost but much more powerful, the M3 will be less the appealing option.

Maybe they will do what noone expects and do what MB are doing; putting in a detuned version of the V8TT into the M3!

[MSpiredM3]

Don't forget that they are planning a pretty good diet for the next gen M3

[GT3]

Thank God for the Porsche GT3.

Thanks for the sig

I might as well start buying Daimlerchrysler Ag stocks if BMW doesn't put out something to compete with the 5.5 TT AMG's...
A lightweight 3.0 TT car wont do. They will just be 2 completely different cars... Unless BMW comes up with something to handle power like the 2JZ-GTE supra engine(+36 psi TT 3.0 900whp capable on stock internals)...

[Sticky]

but in all honesty, there is something about the pull you get from the turbos kicking in and blasting you on your way which NA can never do for me anymore

Of course, but Porsche gives you both.

How is BMW going to race in ALMS GT with a boosted 6?

[fstop7]

Of course, but Porsche gives you both.

How is BMW going to race in ALMS GT with a boosted 6?

It wouldn't surprise me if they do a homologation car. Like a run of 50 V8 based F30 M3 CSLs or something.

[Itsbrokeagain]

hm Benz upps the ante. Interesting to see how this turns out...

[Sticky]

It wouldn't surprise me if they do a homologation car. Like a run of 50 V8 based F30 M3 CSLs or something.

They tried that back in 2001, ALMS changed the rules.

[Yukohama]

man i hope bmw comes up with a proper response to this and doesnt pussyout...

[Remonster]

I hate how all cars are subject to environmentalism these days, why can't the manufacturers realize that the buyers of these cars are usually not dumb enough to get caught up in the sensationalism and would rather buy a performance car that gets a few less miles per gallon if it means getting more performance or having a high revving naturally aspirated engine.

I love the power of my 135i but there are a lot of times when I miss the responsiveness of my 328i's enigne, it's not just throttle response but it was a lot more enjoyable through bumpy twisty roads.

[Sticky]

I love the power of my 135i but there are a lot of times when I miss the responsiveness of my 328i's enigne

Exactly, I don't see why BMW could not continue to offer turbo motors and NA motors.

But... they found a way to use the same motors for both now. Just shortcuts, cutting cost, and profits. That is all that matters.

[MSIZZLE]

guys this is sad sad news, why cant they use a d tuned version of the m5/6 like someone else suggested?? I remember when we found out they were dumping the s85 how devastated we were on the m5/6 boards!! a motor that revs to 8250 makes 100hp per liter and will drag 4000lb cars to 200!! Yes tt's are great for power but its just not the same i love my s85

[Sticky]

guys this is sad sad news, why cant they use a d tuned version of the m5/6 like someone else suggested??

Because they are efficiently dynamically retarded.

es tt's are great for power but its just not the same i love my s85

If they TT'd the S85 or S65 not a single person would be complaining, we would all probably be on our knees in worship.

[mazdaspeed6]

Those look like some pretty beefy turbos, looks like there is a LOT of room to bump up boost...

[BASELINE]

AMG is just not messing around. Let me just sum it up in my infinite wisdom, "BMW is $#@!ed!" They are bringing a knife to a gun fight....a butter knife at that.

At the end, regardless of whether the M3 turns out to be a better driving car or not, the MB will $#@! on it everywhere performance wise. And with the DCTs being the "standard" performance choice going forward...the trans playing field is now level. MB made huge strides in terms of driving dynamics with the current C class to get it close to the 3 series....if it makes the same type of progress next time around, I'll be really hard pressed to find many quantifiable advantages in the BMW performance offering.

BMW might end up losing the advantage of being a better car dynamically...and now that the days of buying a BMW performance car also because it could be had with a manual are over...whats left? Oh the wonderful engines.....wait, they stop making those too.

Awesome!!

[GG///M3]

I have them all out gun'd and raped.

[1cleanAMG]

Cant wait to see the next C63.

[malooamg]

i work for mecedes in australia and every thing ive been led to believe is that at the end of 2011 the tt 5.5lt will be put into the c lass and the c class coupe 63

Will the 5.5 ttV8 find its way into the new C-class coupe being built next year?

[Sticky]

i work for mecedes in australia and every thing ive been led to believe is that at the end of 2011 the tt 5.5lt will be put into the c lass and the c class coupe 63

Into the coupe as well? I may switch to Benz.