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01-04-2014, 05:47 PM #26
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I don't know how much extra power this configuration can muster, but these guys seem to play it pretty conservative, maybe because of the DME/IPW concern you've raised. They repeatedly emphasize how they're not running the engine beyond normal ECU parameters. This is not a dyno, but it will give you an idea of what the KS box now produces for the N47d20 (320d/328d): http://www.kelleners-sport.de/images...1220021_en.pdf
I do plan on doing before/after dyno runs this spring. Do you have any dyno shops in the Boston area that you'd recommend?
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01-04-2014, 10:11 PM #27
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If the gains are conservative then I don't see any good reason to implement it that way vs. fuel mass attenuation and lots of reasons not too. But, I'm also biased towards the approach we took during our development.
The chart isn't overly useful as its not a true dynojet chart. Plus it's always best to see 3rd party "real world" customer testing. Any dynojet brand dyno will do so just track one down in your area. When you do the testing maybe I'll shoot a JBD over for you to borrow just so we can see where it stands in comparison.Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!
It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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01-04-2014, 11:34 PM #28
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Thanks, Terry. I found several Dynojet dynamometer centers in my area. I'll let you know when I'm ready to roll and maybe you can send a JBD loaner to me.
If the gains are conservative then I don't see any good reason to implement it that way vs. fuel mass attenuation and lots of reasons not too.
Also, I'm not so sure that the direct injector input totally by-passes the DME. I know it seems it's got to be one or the other, but I'd be surprised if these tuners went in that direction. I'll shoot an email their way and see if I can get a response about that. We might be moving into the realm of proprietary information here, I don't know.
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01-05-2014, 01:24 PM #29
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The way injector IPW modification is done is the signal is read and then retransmitted with a slightly higher duty cycle as a function of an internal algorithm . When designing a tuning system you need to fully evaluate the benefits and risks of any given signal change at the signal level. e.g. what can go wrong if the signal is not sent as intended, or the internal algorithm used to modify the signal does not react as intended to a specific data set. Most of that analysis is proprietary. But I will tell you there are a lot more potentially "bad" things that can crop up on the direct IPW adjustment side of things than the fuel mass side of things. Because when altering the fuel mass the DME remains fully in charge of every drop of fuel injected. So you have the added benefit of the DME's safety logic in play limiting the damage that can be done by a bad signal transmission.
Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!
It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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01-05-2014, 03:53 PM #30
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Fascinating. I hope other people are reading this thread because I know I'm learning a helluva lot here. I will use the information in this description to frame my question to "the Germans".
If I manage to pry anything out of them on this IPM issue I'll let you know via PM and here. Thanks again.
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01-06-2014, 02:15 PM #31
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01-07-2014, 11:54 PM #32
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hey Terry,
I don't think this reply is wholly satisfactory for your purposes, but this is what I asked and this is what he replied:
Me: "Is the KS-20 manipulation of the main injection time (Injection Pulse Width=IPW) still under the ultimate control of the cars's ECU (DME)? Will the ECU still be able to produce a normal pulse width even if there is a bad signal coming from a malfunction in the tuning box? A bad signal going to the injectors can cause a great deal of harm inside the engine."
KS: "Regarding the power increase: we influence the injection time and pressure. The Kelleners module works under influence of the original ECU what means if there is any problem on the engine the power increase is disabled (what it is not the case for cheaper devices). But at the same time if it is any problem with the module itself the car doesn’t run properly anymore. In this case you would have to remove the module in order to have the stock setup again. Then we would have to check the hardware of the module itself but this case is very very rare."
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10-02-2014, 11:31 AM #33
wow Im glad i got a RENNtech Flash, Car has been running great for over two years and NO CODES whatsover, Increase hp from 230 OEM to 318 whp and eventually went up to 327 whp and 452 wtq that includes the WAGNER IC, now I hvae a down pipe and 3" exhaust havent done the dyno but hopefully next few weeks
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05-25-2015, 10:39 PM #34
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I wonder if any of the piggy-backs can take into account for upgraded IC, and or any DPF/EGR deletes? or are these a must ECU-FLASH in order to accomplish such? if a JBD and upgraded IC works, that may be a better and simpler way to go. Best bang for the buck.
I see Puerto Rican 335d has done a lot, any Dyno results by now? Thanks
Hmm, what else can be done to the E70 US spec'd diesel? I know the 335d has many more options. wonder why?
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05-27-2015, 05:32 PM #35
Welcome...
We welcome Dekabwerks