FBO M5 vs FBO C63 Coupe

[rawad1017]

very un reliable car im sure you guys agree with me

you don't know how to take care of it

[BmwM5e60monsterv10]

C'mon man bean driving performance cars all my life, my car for close to 40k and always something up very sensitive car already change clutch 10k miles ago and you telling me idk to take care of it... It's ok

[rawad1017]

C'mon man bean driving performance cars all my life, my car for close to 40k and always something up very sensitive car already change clutch 10k miles ago and you telling me idk to take care of it... It's ok

the problem is SMG is a pos transmission and at around 70k miles you should change your bearings, and if you don't daily drive it and its pre LCI then you get electrical issues, but other than that its a solid car you can't say its unreliable

[5soko]

the problem is SMG is a pos transmission and at around 70k miles you should change your bearings, and if you don't daily drive it and its pre LCI then you get electrical issues, but other than that its a solid car you can't say its unreliable

Actually if anything the 6MT on the S85 platform is a POS. Its a after thought that was just thrown at the car.Same trans thats in the normal bmw cars, straight off a 5 or 6 series car. M division actually never wanted to ever use any type of manually trans on this car, but bmw pushed them provide one for the U.S. market because there was a few guys who wanted it. No where else in the world. So they took the normal bmw 5/6 series trans and put it on the car.

The SMG was actually specifically designed by M division to run with the S85.. It has better gear ratios suited to this engines power, and shifts faster then any 6MT or human can. 06/07 had the most smg problems but they were all recalled specific parts and changes within those years.. 08+ are pretty strong, but the 09/10 are the best SMG examples since they have the most up to date smg parts and software, the are pretty bulletproof.. Now a clutch is a clutch, if you abuse it, do launch control or burnout mode alot, there is only so much a clutch can take.. Anyone who drives a manual will know this of course.

09/10 also have the strongest engine of all the S85's with the new type of 702/703 rod bearings that last and dont have the poor material the old 88/89 bearings like the 06/07/08 engines have.
09/10 motors also have two oil drain plugs ( compared to 1 like older years) This is done to get more old oil out esp by the rod bearings, stronger main bolts that connect to main engine block, new/better pistion/cylinder oil jets, etc along with the latest vanos lines, solenoids, pump, gears and vanos units.

[inlineS54B32]

^ good info... +1ed

[Sticky]

So how's this thread going?

[Sticky]

but bmw pushed them provide one for the U.S. market because there was a few guys who wanted it. No where else in the world.

They'll give the US M5 a manual but they won't give us a CSL. Who is in charge at BMW?

[rawad1017]

Actually if anything the 6MT on the S85 platform is a POS.

come on, in terms of reliability and practicality, SMG is garbage. yes in terms of performance it is superior to the 6MT.

The SMG was actually specifically designed by M division to run with the S85.. It has better gear ratios suited to this engines power, and shifts faster then any 6MT or human can.

the only 2 things that make the SMG superior is the shift speed and the 7 gears which makes low end accelaration quicker, which you would think would be better for the 6mt high end but BMW figured it out

but the 09/10 are the best SMG examples since they have the most up to date smg parts and software, the are pretty bulletproof..

they still have had software issues, you're victim to that. how much did you have to pay when you took it to the dealer that day (i think it was may 2013?) and do all that headache with the adaptation procedure?

09/10 also have the strongest engine of all the S85's with the new type of 702/703 rod bearings that last and dont have the poor material the old 88/89 bearings like the 06/07/08 engines have.

the difference is the 702/703s aren't leaded like the old ones. they still aren't invincible to wear, Troy has even told us that

This is done to get more old oil out esp by the rod bearings, stronger main bolts that connect to main engine block, new/better pistion/cylinder oil jets, etc along with the latest vanos lines, solenoids, pump, gears and vanos units.

this is true


i've driven SMG with Euro software and a fresh new clutch and flywheel and adaptation and i still prefer my 6mt any day. the SMG is the more capable trans but it isn't built to take abuse all day. 6mt can..

[5soko]

^ good info... +1ed

Thank you kind sir

They'll give the US M5 a manual but they won't give us a CSL. Who is in charge at BMW?

Extremely annoying! They have to stop doing these types of things..

come on, in terms of reliability and practicality, SMG is garbage. yes in terms of performance it is superior to the 6MT.


Your reliability concerns i have addressed in my last post, it was a early issue(06/07 cars, a bunch of issues), you will find close to 0 failures related to the smg in 09/10 cars... Practicality? I live in NYC, the smg is a auto with a clutch, with no clutch pedal, not sure how it can be more practical lol

the only 2 things that make the SMG superior is the shift speed and the 7 gears which makes low end accelaration quicker, which you would think would be better for the 6mt high end but BMW figured it out

Actually gears 5,6,7 or 'top end' is better on the smg then the 6MT..


they still have had software issues, you're victim to that. how much did you have to pay when you took it to the dealer that day (i think it was may 2013?) and do all that headache with the adaptation procedure?

you have me confused with someone else.. Only reason i did ever go to the dealer was right before my warranty was running out i wanted them to take a look over the whole car, i made them check a shadow code(red cog) i had stored in my system that kept reoccurring, speaking with jcolley it was a simple add some hydraulic fluid procedure, but like i said i wanted them to take a look at everything since my warranty was running up.. But only thing bmw did was fill my hydraulic smg resevoir.. I never had any failures or adaptions needed.. Almost 40K strong and in nyc traffic

The software update for the smg i speak of made the algorithms of the clutch grab and release, among other things.. Latest software is alot alot more smoother and easier to drive then 06/07 software which is clunky and harsher..

the difference is the 702/703s aren't leaded like the old ones. they still aren't invincible to wear, Troy has even told us that

i talk to Troy alot on the issues, here is his comment to this:
"The 702/703 bearings all looked great by the way. Highest mileage as 42k and it looked far better than the 088/089 bearings with. 42k"
This is of the six 09/10 engines he has opened, all rod bearings will have some wear, but i think its known, 702/703 bearings are far superior as we habe yet to see a engine with them explode in either a M5 or M3..
He also told me this:
I have seen so many failures from the 088/089 bearings and vanos pumps, etc. I try to tell people to stay away from the 06 and early 07 cars


this is true


i've driven SMG with Euro software and a fresh new clutch and flywheel and adaptation and i still prefer my 6mt any day. the SMG is the more capable trans but it isn't built to take abuse all day. 6mt can..

The smg was designed by the M division and tested around the nurburgring.. So im pretty sure it was designed with some abuse in mind.. Did the smg have its issues early on, and is it more complex then say a 6MT, of course.. 6MT is a simple design.. Two things to remember, 2006 was the best sales year for the M5/M6 and this also the worst year for the smg, secondly, 6MT are extremely low in volume, if there were issues with them the sample is so small to know a trending issue.. M divisions have done hundreds of laps with the smg around the ring, and probably 0 with the 6MT.

At the end of the day it personal preference which you like more, but i wanted to clean up and add a few facts and knowns on the smg besides, 'its a pos'

Replies in Bold

[inlineS54B32]

he smg was designed by the M division and tested around the nurburgring.. So im pretty sure it was designed with some abuse in mind.. Did the smg have its issues early on, and is it more complex then say a 6MT, of course.. 6MT is a simple design.. Two things to remember, 2006 was the best sales year for the M5/M6 and this also the worst year for the smg, secondly, 6MT are extremely low in volume, if there were issues with them the sample is so small to know a trending issue.. M divisions have done hundreds of laps with the smg around the ring, and probably 0 with the 6MT.

At the end of the day it personal preference which you like more, but i wanted to clean up and add a few facts and knowns on the smg besides, 'its a pos'

Exactly this...

I wholeheartedly agree that SMG is superior to the 6 speed box. ESPECIALLY in the S85 powered cars - where the transmission and engine were designed to work "in harmony" as a unit. It was not designed around the 6 speed, it was designed around the SMG transmission. In other words, the car was designed and engineered from the factory to be as quick/reliable/etc. as possible using this transmission. It is an "afterthought" that the 6 speed is available.

I get the "hate" of the SMG though - but to be honest, nearly all of the issues I had were solved. I wouldn't even call them issues - it was a software update/bulletin here or there, but the clutch/transmission was literally bulletproof. I abused the F*** out of that car, and it ran the same as it did when I bought it as when I traded up to the new M3 (I regret this, should have kept it and had both). I will buy an E46 M3 with SMG again - it's just a matter of having a parking spot at this point. I live in Chicago, and have to pay more than the value of the car itself just to keep it indoors; it's ridiculous.

Many of the "complaints" around SMG were from customers that would shift the transmission and think that the TCU would do "everything" and make it a perfect shift (no shift shock/jerk/etc). Although the car could perfectly handle this jerk/shock/jolt (whatever you want to call it) - customers hated it. However, most people didn't realize that a little bit of throttle manipulation between the gears made for a perfect shift. I could get in an M5 or M3 with SMG, blindfold and put hearing protection on you - and almost guarantee you wouldn't know if you were in a 6 speed car or an SMG. You could "manipulate" the shift with the throttle at partial loads, and that was something that wasn't communicated well from BMW - and it's a damn shame. I loved that car, and loved the gearbox.

[rawad1017]

S85 based SMG M cars: most towed BMWs to date, current record holder

lol it's true BMW figured it out in the late model cars but by the time they figured out something was wrong (despite the thousands of warranty claims on SMG trans) they came out with the DCT on the M3, which kinda sucks

i do wish the 6MT worked better with the S85, M should have released 6MT from the start. you can tell they figured that out when we saw the F10 M5 had the DCT as an option and not standard. more money + demand is there. really i find it hard to believe that no one in Europe hated the SMG and wanted a man's transmission. the MT used to be one of the biggest things in M cars, like when the E39 M5 only came in manual.. but whatever times have changed coulda shoulda woulda

[inlineS54B32]

S85 based SMG M cars: most towed BMWs to date, current record holder

lol it's true BMW figured it out in the late model cars but by the time they figured out something was wrong (despite the thousands of warranty claims on SMG trans) they came out with the DCT on the M3, which kinda sucks

i do wish the 6MT worked better with the S85, M should have released 6MT from the start. you can tell they figured that out when we saw the F10 M5 had the DCT as an option and not standard. more money + demand is there. really i find it hard to believe that no one in Europe hated the SMG and wanted a man's transmission. the MT used to be one of the biggest things in M cars, like when the E39 M5 only came in manual.. but whatever times have changed coulda shoulda woulda

No offense, but what you are saying is what's wrong with the world of cars.

This is the type of thinking that "forces" BMW to create a car with a manual option - just to appease the USA.

We are the only country where we have people that equate driving a 6 speed manual transmission with "being a man" or "macho" - it's the most RIDICULOUS $#@! in the world. Driving a 6 speed (even driving one WELL) takes virtually no skill, and is not "special" - however, in the US, we have concluded that it is. Everywhere else, where the 6 speed HAS BEEN around forever - they laugh. They DO NOT WANT this crap anymore; there are BETTER technologies - and countries like Europe (who do not equate a 6 speed with virtual c**k size) "get it", while we bitch and moan - and FORCE BMW to give us a slower, substandard option (think about that) - just so we can prance around and say "oh, I have a real man's manual" in the forums/to your cousin/etc...

So, in other words - it's not about driving what's the best anymore, it's about what's cute in the parking lot. $#@! that. I am sorry man, but I have been driving a 6 speed since I started driving - it doesn't take much skill. There is nothing manly about it. Soon enough, we will catch up - and the forum wars will end in regard to the "manly transmission" - and people will just "understand" that there is better technology out there. It's so silly to give a $#@! what other people think about YOUR CAR.

I want the fastest shifting option possible. Period. I give 0 cares to what people think is more "manly" - that's ridiculous. It pisses me off to be honest. We bitched and moaned - and BMW catered to us (threw a 6 speed option in). We should be BITCHING and MOANING for the GTS or CSL - and instead get that. But no, we need a "man's transmission" - not a race car.

[inlineS54B32]

And just to be clear, this is not an attack against you @rawad1017 - this is just a /rant on the "manly" transmission remarks that everyone seems to continue even after the age of SMG/DSG. It's like saying I would rather have fireplaces rather than lightbulbs in my house because it's more manly. It just makes no sense to me. It's not logical, and again - pisses me off.

On another note, the reason there were so many warranty claims (again, here in this country) is due to the "jerkiness" of the transmission. They had to dumb down the clutch (dis)engagement to make us feel better about our purchase (sadly, people buy an M3 expecting a Lexus) - because people didn't understand that moving your right foot (throttle) between shifts was the key to a smooth shift. You do know that the mechanical gearbox is EXACTLY THE SAME between the M3 6 speed and the M3 SMG, right? One has a hydraulically actuated clutch, the other doesn't. The gearbox is exactly the same though.

[rawad1017]

No offense, but what you are saying is what's wrong with the world of cars.

This is the type of thinking that "forces" BMW to create a car with a manual option - just to appease the USA.

We are the only country where we have people that equate driving a 6 speed manual transmission with "being a man" or "macho" - it's the most RIDICULOUS $#@! in the world. Driving a 6 speed (even driving one WELL) takes virtually no skill, and is not "special" - however, in the US, we have concluded that it is. Everywhere else, where the 6 speed HAS BEEN around forever - they laugh. They DO NOT WANT this crap anymore; there are BETTER technologies - and countries like Europe (who do not equate a 6 speed with virtual c**k size) "get it", while we bitch and moan - and FORCE BMW to give us a slower, substandard option (think about that) - just so we can prance around and say "oh, I have a real man's manual" in the forums/to your cousin/etc...

So, in other words - it's not about driving what's the best anymore, it's about what's cute in the parking lot. $#@! that. I am sorry man, but I have been driving a 6 speed since I started driving - it doesn't take much skill. There is nothing manly about it. Soon enough, we will catch up - and the forum wars will end in regard to the "manly transmission" - and people will just "understand" that there is better technology out there. It's so silly to give a $#@! what other people think about YOUR CAR.

I want the fastest shifting option possible. Period. I give 0 cares to what people think is more "manly" - that's ridiculous. It pisses me off to be honest. We bitched and moaned - and BMW catered to us (threw a 6 speed option in). We should be BITCHING and MOANING for the GTS or CSL - and instead get that. But no, we need a "man's transmission" - not a race car.

lol the man's transmission comment was a joke, anyway don't forget there is a market for those who don't necessarily want to be the fastest and want to enjoy their car, and 6mt is the way to go IMO. there is just no way that no one in Europe wanted a 6mt, why bmw never released it anywhere else is beyond me

[rawad1017]

And just to be clear, this is not an attack against you @rawad1017 - this is just a /rant on the "manly" transmission remarks that everyone seems to continue even after the age of SMG/DSG. It's like saying I would rather have fireplaces rather than lightbulbs in my house because it's more manly. It just makes no sense to me. It's not logical, and again - pisses me off.

On another note, the reason there were so many warranty claims (again, here in this country) is due to the "jerkiness" of the transmission. They had to dumb down the clutch (dis)engagement to make us feel better about our purchase (sadly, people buy an M3 expecting a Lexus) - because people didn't understand that moving your right foot (throttle) between shifts was the key to a smooth shift. You do know that the mechanical gearbox is EXACTLY THE SAME between the M3 6 speed and the M3 SMG, right? One has a hydraulically actuated clutch, the other doesn't. The gearbox is exactly the same though.

lol its all good man but the most warranty claims came from the guys who were left stranded on the side of the road because the smg would get stuck in 1st gear and not move, car wouldn't turn on, limp mode, etc. the jerkiness of the transmission was just a complaint and you have to keep doing SMG adaptation to fix it all the time

[5soko]

S85 based SMG M cars: most towed BMWs to date, current record holder

lol it's true BMW figured it out in the late model cars but by the time they figured out something was wrong (despite the thousands of warranty claims on SMG trans) they came out with the DCT on the M3, which kinda sucks

i do wish the 6MT worked better with the S85, M should have released 6MT from the start. you can tell they figured that out when we saw the F10 M5 had the DCT as an option and not standard. more money + demand is there. really i find it hard to believe that no one in Europe hated the SMG and wanted a man's transmission. the MT used to be one of the biggest things in M cars, like when the E39 M5 only came in manual.. but whatever times have changed coulda shoulda woulda

I would love to see data or a link to this, because N54 engines and my two 335i's owned within 7 years had 5X times the problems of my M5 in the past 2 years... Failed open injector, fuel pump, lpfp, cracked charge pipe, misfires, dead coils, smoking turbos, etc. As much as i loved it.. And the amount of 335i's on the road is probably 5X the number of M5's/M6's.

And just to be clear, this is not an attack against you @rawad1017 - this is just a /rant on the "manly" transmission remarks that everyone seems to continue even after the age of SMG/DSG. It's like saying I would rather have fireplaces rather than lightbulbs in my house because it's more manly. It just makes no sense to me. It's not logical, and again - pisses me off.

On another note, the reason there were so many warranty claims (again, here in this country) is due to the "jerkiness" of the transmission. They had to dumb down the clutch (dis)engagement to make us feel better about our purchase (sadly, people buy an M3 expecting a Lexus) - because people didn't understand that moving your right foot (throttle) between shifts was the key to a smooth shift. You do know that the mechanical gearbox is EXACTLY THE SAME between the M3 6 speed and the M3 SMG, right? One has a hydraulically actuated clutch, the other doesn't. The gearbox is exactly the same though.

+1'd!

[rawad1017]

I would love to see data or a link to this, because N54 engines and my two 335i's owned within 7 years had 5X times the problems of my M5 in the past 2 years... Failed open injector, fuel pump, lpfp, cracked charge pipe, misfires, dead coils, smoking turbos, etc. As much as i loved it.. And the amount of 335i's on the road is probably 5X the number of M5's/M6's.




+1'd!

our cars are actually pretty strong, it's really just the SMG and though the issues were resolved it took a $#@! load of complaining and warranty claims to make it happen and the issue is still pretty severe. whatever it is what it is lol

[inlineS54B32]

our cars are actually pretty strong, it's really just the SMG and though the issues were resolved it took a $#@! load of complaining and warranty claims to make it happen and the issue is still pretty severe. whatever it is what it is lol

Yeah, I feel ya. I think although the transmission itself is pretty bulletproof, there were some software issues that a lot of people were "told" to get - and I do know of a few people that had the pump/actuator go out. I don't know much on the statistics (re: how many failures for manual vs how many for SMG). Point is, I think it's a superior transmission (especially for a car like this... I wouldn't think it fly in an Accord or something) - even though it had a few issues. By the time SMG III was out, the thing was basically "perfect" - and then along came DSG.