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Thread: Turbo import pocket rockets - 2014 Mercedes CLA45 AMG vs. 2014 BMW M235i vs. 2014 Subaru WRX STI
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03-21-2014, 05:15 PM #26Member
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Every exterior body panel except the roof, IIRC, is different. I believe many of the interior panels are different as well. Every previous WRX is pretty much identical to the Impreza, with the exception of wider fenders, more aggressive bumper, sport seats.
Subaru really only has two platforms. The small one is shared between the Impreza/Crosstrek and Forester, and the larger is shared between the Legacy and Outback (and possibly the forthcoming Subaru minivan).
I haven't seen one in person yet, though.
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03-21-2014, 06:47 PM #27
The 2.0T in the WRX is Direct Injection, which we all know is a total PITA to deal with compared to port injection. I know with the EJ257 that I can get close to 400whp on E85 with a tune, upgraded tank pump, and upgraded injectors. Who knows what the FA20 will do on corn, or how long it will take to get it there...
The engine isn't the only difference between the cars and I'm after a four season canyon carver, rather than a drag car. So the handling improvements on the STi are appealing, as are the things like:
Brembos vs Subie brakes
Bulletproof 6MT with direct actuation vs. cable shift 6MT of unknown durability
Rear-biased (41/59) AWD with DCCD vs traditional Subie AWD (50/50) with no driver control of torque split.
Front helical LSD and rear Torsen LSD vs. open front/rear diffs
STi has more reinforced areas in the chassis than the WRX (more handling improvements)
Some non-performance differences:
dual zone climate control
alcantara seating with more aggressive bolsters
LED headlamps (WRX is stuck with halogens and no LED/xenon option)
Since I can reach my power goals with the EJ, I'd rather get a car where I only have to upgrade the power instead of one where I have to upgrade the power, brakes, suspension, etc. etc. etc. Maybe the WRX would be cheaper, but definitely not easier. And I don't want to wait for my local tuner to know how to reliably tune for E85 on the new motor.Current: '00 S2000
Previous: '15 M235i xDrive | '15 Macan S | '15 WRX STi | '06 Cayman S | '12 E92 335is w/JB4 | '10 STi
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03-21-2014, 06:50 PM #28
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03-21-2014, 10:50 PM #29Member
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Full disclosure: I own a BRZ, and I used to own an Evo VIII.
That being said, I think overall the FA20 will prove to be a stronger engine, and there is already tremendous aftermarket support. The Dual Injection system on the BRZ is an advantage over pure DI, though. If 400 whp is your goal, the venerable EJ25 is more than capable. Just make sure you get someone who knows what they're doing to tune it.
The engine isn't the only difference between the cars and I'm after a four season canyon carver, rather than a drag car. So the handling improvements on the STi are appealing, as are the things like:
Brembos vs Subie brakes
Bulletproof 6MT with direct actuation vs. cable shift 6MT of unknown durability
Rear-biased (41/59) AWD with DCCD vs traditional Subie AWD (50/50) with no driver control of torque split.
Front helical LSD and rear Torsen LSD vs. open front/rear diffs
STi has more reinforced areas in the chassis than the WRX (more handling improvements)
Some non-performance differences:
dual zone climate control
alcantara seating with more aggressive bolsters
LED headlamps (WRX is stuck with halogens and no LED/xenon option)
Since I can reach my power goals with the EJ, I'd rather get a car where I only have to upgrade the power instead of one where I have to upgrade the power, brakes, suspension, etc. etc. etc. Maybe the WRX would be cheaper, but definitely not easier. And I don't want to wait for my local tuner to know how to reliably tune for E85 on the new motor.
WRX/STi sales make up a very small portion of Subaru's total sales, it's not about money. I think they may need a push to be at the top of their game.
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03-21-2014, 10:54 PM #30
Would you do me a favor please @andrew20195 and take a look at the subaruboost and mitsubishiboost forum indexes to see how they are setup and if they make sense?
Pay no attention to the styling that will change:
http://www.subaruboost.com/forum.php
http://www.mitsubishiboost.com/forum.phpBRAND NEW IN BOX 991.2 standard/non-pse SPW cat bypass pipe for sale - $899 shipped
New generic 991.2 PSE bypass pipes - $499 shipped
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03-21-2014, 11:54 PM #31
This will be my third STi, along with an '02 WRX. So the EJ and the rest of the Subaru driveline are very familiar to me...
Definitely dual injection helps - Toyota did it mainly for emissions of course, but for the rest of us, the main benefit will be reduction of carbon build up.
I look at the EJ this way: At first I was disappointed too. It would have been great to get a new mill, but there's already so much knowledge and so many parts out there for the EJ that I'm not letting it hold me back (obviously). To me the rest of the car is much improved, and waiting on an FA to come into the STi means parking a car over the winter again. Or dropping more cash on a different AWD car which, in light of this comparison, won't really hold up from a performance standpoint.
As for my tuner, I'll go to one of the highly regarded tuners in Colorado... where Subaru is the official state car.
Yep, you're right about that although as you mentioned, the newer WRX may have closed that gap. They did go to electric power steering on the WRX now, so another plus to STi and the quickened hydraulic rack this year.
S2000 is the best shifter I've ever used, period. My Cayman's shifter, with the convoluted cable setup, is trash by comparison. I used to grind 2nd all the time in my 2010 STi... They've apparently made some improvements to the linkage for '15; hopefully they are beneficial.
It hasn't happened often, but I've absolutely needed to lock the center diff to get up my driveway in winter. Times when an Outback got stuck, an STi made it up... both with full winters mounted.
Totally agree here - competition is often the thing that spurs innovation, and with Mitsu being questionable about extending the Evo lineup, Subaru doesn't have a lot of motivation. It will be interesting to see how the STi does against the upcoming S3 and Golf R. Those are really the only comparable cars in the segment now. Regardless, hopefully we'll see an FA20/FA25 with 330-350hp stock in a few years.Current: '00 S2000
Previous: '15 M235i xDrive | '15 Macan S | '15 WRX STi | '06 Cayman S | '12 E92 335is w/JB4 | '10 STi
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03-22-2014, 12:25 PM #32
Detailed information about the significant changes to the 2015 STI:
http://subaruboost.com/showthread.ph...424#post552424
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03-22-2014, 12:30 PM #33
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04-05-2014, 09:28 PM #34
Really like the new styling of the STi...they lost their way there for a while. I use to have an 04 (03 build - first US STi release) and loved it - but ~76k hard miles on it with no significant issues. Great transmission. Best braking car in the world when it was released. Biggest fault was lack of steering feel/feedback which I think BMW is the best at in the world.
AWDriveyourself can also be a little boring sometimes...but man can you push those things safely.
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04-10-2014, 06:31 PM #35
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04-10-2014, 07:54 PM #36
Could be right. My first-hand experience only goes to the E92 M3. I've never driven a car with better feedback - and that includes the Ferrari 430 Scuderia. I know BMW is all "our new electric steering is better than the e92" - well, I haven't driven it yet so I will reserve judgement. The fact that Porsche has gone to electronic steering gives me some hope that BMW can do a good job.
I will say this. I drove a new F30 32 eh forget what - with the new 2L turbo. Amazing engine. I give it an F- on steering and road feedback. Compare this to my wife's 09 328, I would give it an A+ in the same category. So that tiny sample does support your opinion.
The other thing I would add is that, after further reflection from a business standpoint, I think this may be deliberate. I mean if you consider who is really the target market for a base 3 series BMW, they likely want a luxurious disconnected feel. Still, to me it seems all wrong. If I wanted that, I would get an Acura....like the wheel isn't even connected to the car : P
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04-10-2014, 07:59 PM #37
BRAND NEW IN BOX 991.2 standard/non-pse SPW cat bypass pipe for sale - $899 shipped
New generic 991.2 PSE bypass pipes - $499 shipped
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04-10-2014, 08:08 PM #38
I disagree. Maybe in a parking lot, but on the track I prefer the E92.
A lot of people remapping the steering etc...I think it is damn near perfect....at least in the range where most people should be quite pleased. Remember, like it or not the e9x M3 IS a GT car + track car. I think the E46 was less GT focused IMHO.
EDIT - I would also add that the boosting does not kill the feedback IMHO - that is the magic.
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04-10-2014, 09:50 PM #39
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04-10-2014, 10:27 PM #40Senior Member
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04-10-2014, 10:40 PM #41
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04-10-2014, 11:19 PM #42
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04-10-2014, 11:25 PM #43
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