Does BMW owe us an i8 M or M1? The case for a BMW M supercar

[G0TB00ST?]

Yeah and that's why they aren't making a super car. They don't see profit in it like the see in fwd gas savers

[Sticky]

That does hit on the issue really. They just want money.

Why do they push stuff that doesn't sell like the 5 GT though? They probably lost more on that car with inventory and development then it would take for M to create a limited run of i8 M's with higher margins.

[G0TB00ST?]

That does hit on the issue really. They just want money.

Why do they push stuff that doesn't sell like the 5 GT though? They probably lost more on that car with inventory and development then it would take for M to create a limited run of i8 M's with higher margins.

It would make sense to drop those cars but who knows the logic behind bmw now

[whoosh]

In 2015 the EU law dictates that on average every car sold in the EU can at a max produce 130 grams of CO2 per km.
For car manufacturers that exceed this limit by more than 35% must pay a fine for every car registered.
You do the math.
BMW is gonna push this i Brand like crazy to create air for their moneymakers, which produce far more CO2 then 130 grams/km.

In 2021 the limit for cars will drop to 95 grams/km, and they have to consume (on average) no more than 3,9 liters of fuel per 100 km max.
There is a mathematical loophole for cars producing less than 50 grams/km counting double in the calculations, but that is temporally and that effect will decline over time.
I know it's not what you want to hear, but these are the rules European Car manufacturers will have to obey to and are forced to implement to the cars they produce.

Porsche has to adhere to the same EU standards...

But where are the FWD Porsche cars?

Porsche's parallel to the i8 holds the lap record (until P1 sets an official time) at the 'ring and returns 70+ MPG in its efficient mode.

The Macan turbo ran an unofficial 8:15 on the 'ring... And still returns mid-20's MPG (US). Where's BMW's answer to that?

The GT3 is still naturally aspirated, as are the Carrera and Boxster and Cayman models. The latest iterations make more power, and are more efficient at the same time.

BMW has to have the i cars to improve their average because the majority of their lineup has gotten too big and heavy over the years. If the 3 and 1 series were the same in weight and efficiency as the 991/981 for Porsche, that alone would help offset the bulkier 5 and 7 series cars.

[Sticky]

Plenty of companies offer naturally aspirated and forced induction cars. BMW chooses not to in order to share parts to keep costs down plus make a killing on offering 'performance' software. It's all about money.

[leo985i]

$#@! BMW. American muscle is in my future.

[Sticky]

$#@! BMW. American muscle is in my future.

Word.

[SexiPYm3]

I don't see what the fuss is about. I feel like the M3 is the only car built that led its class. And it still does. Other than that, I don't care much for BMW. But for all those that are going crazy about the direction that BMW is going, there are other car brands to switch to. Very simple.

[Sticky]

But for all those that are going crazy about the direction that BMW is going, there are other car brands to switch to. Very simple.

Isn't that the article's conclusion?

[SexiPYm3]

Isn't that the article's conclusion?

I guess I am agreeing with the article then.

[Sticky]

I guess I am agreeing with the article then.

Clearly the author knows what he's talking about then.

[DavidV]

Porsche has to adhere to the same EU standards...

But where are the FWD Porsche cars?

Most of "Porsche" cars are FWD.
That's because Porsche is not a single company any more, they are part of the VAG. Just like Bugatti, Bentley and Lamborghini. All the UPs, Polo blue motions, A1's and A2's are making up for the CO2 of the high end brands.
Read here
Most of "Porsche's" FWD cars go under the brandnames like Audi, SEAT, Škoda and Volkswagen
Just be glad in Porsche's case that brand name was strong enough to keep. It could have been a VW sign on front if Volkswagen had done the same to Porsche as GM has done to Daewoo (in Europe) rebadging them as Chevrolet.

BMW has to have the i cars to improve their average because the majority of their lineup has gotten too big and heavy over the years.

BMW, as a single car manufacturer, has divided resources to design, engineer and produce it's own e-brand to cope with upcoming regulations, and in the process tries to cover all niches to make money. Just give some credit where it's due.
You keep comparing the 2 companies, but Porsches are inherently race cars, and BMW's just are not.
It's apples and oranges, really. As much as you want, you just can not compare these brands like you do.

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Sad as it is, you forgot to add even one more thing they're apparently developing: a 9 series (was announced on the other forum today). The "insider" said that this was the new BMW DNA. Meaning producing bigger and heavier cars as well as more FWD $#@!e. Which would be ok with me - same as you're stating - if at least they also made true performance models and sportscars. Instead they leave that mostly to their competitors: Audi TT (no real competitor @ BMW, Z4 is something different IMO), Audi R8 (haha), Mercedes SLS (haha), Mercedes GTC (dito)...and let's not even talk about Porsche that now also belong to the VAG group.

Anyway, as much as I wanted my new car be a BMW again, I've switched to a NA 2-seater that will be delivered in 2 weeks. Way to go, BMW.

Alpina_B3_Lux

[Sticky]

Sad as it is, you forgot to add even one more thing they're apparently developing: a 9 series (was announced on the other forum today). The "insider" said that this was the new BMW DNA. Meaning producing bigger and heavier cars as well as more FWD $#@!e. Which would be ok with me - same as you're stating - if at least they also made true performance models and sportscars. Instead they leave that mostly to their competitors: Audi TT (no real competitor @ BMW, Z4 is something different IMO), Audi R8 (haha), Mercedes SLS (haha), Mercedes GTC (dito)...and let's not even talk about Porsche that now also belong to the VAG group.

Anyway, as much as I wanted my new car be a BMW again, I've switched to a NA 2-seater that will be delivered in 2 weeks. Way to go, BMW.

Alpina_B3_Lux

That insider gets a lot wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if he is just invented. An 8-Series makes more sense than a 9 ever would...

[DavidV]

That insider gets a lot wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if he is just invented. An 8-Series makes more sense than a 9 ever would...

I read today this 9-series will be sharing the platform used for the Rollce Royce Phantom, which actually makes more sense.
So it could be possible there will be a 9 series in the making.

[Sticky]

If sharing the Phantom platform sure but what does BMW need a 9 for with... the Phantom there? Make a new 8 based on it as there is no CL competitor.

[Velocity26]

These companies always start out with visionaries and engineers running the company, attempting to design and build the ultimate cars. As they grow, over time, the bean counters eventually gain the upper hand and take control over the engineers. Piece by piece, they carve the pennies out of the costs until there is only the appearance of performance. They re-use the production parts in the performance cars until there is little difference between them.