Steve Dinan takes shots at BMW piggyback tunes calling them poorly calibrated - Piggyback versus flash tuning

[Viet Tran]

I wonder why so many folks are complaining about their prices. The Dinan for e93 CAI intake is $1299.00 while Gruppe M Intake is $3487.00 MSRP. BMW M Performance Exhaust is $1683.00 MSRP while the Dinan Exhaust for the 2009 E93 is $1600 MSRP. Akropovich exhausts are even more astronomical.

Anyone care to explain? Please don't bring in AFE or any of those cheap intake producers that make your expensive BMW look like a teenage hoodlum's car. Thanks for your thoughts.

BTW...I do have the Dinan Stage 2 Flash and it works like a charm. Yesterday I had the M Performance exhaust installed by the dealership (surprisingly cheaper than all the independent shops I requested quotes from). I gotta tell ya, if you have the Dinan Flash...you are doing yourself a disservice if you don't get the M Performance Exhaust or the Dinan Exhaust installed. I did not realize it would make such a noticeable improvement. The wheels squealed more even as I drove the same way as before. And the sound is so addicting.

Next install will be Dinan Intake and ditching the OEM runflats for Michelin Super Pilot non RTFs. Hope that the new tires will give me a mile or two extra MPG and better overall handling! Wish me luck.

Happy Driving!

[Sticky]

The Dinan for e93 CAI intake is $1299.00 while Gruppe M Intake is $3487.00 MSRP. BMW M Performance Exhaust is $1683.00 MSRP while the Dinan Exhaust for the 2009 E93 is $1600 MSRP. Akropovich exhausts are even more astronomical.

Because you don't have to go with Dinan or Gruppe M? Just because Gruppe M has insane pricing doesn't mean Dinan suddenly becomes a value.

Anyone care to explain? Please don't bring in AFE or any of those cheap intake producers that make your expensive BMW look like a teenage hoodlum's car. Thanks for your thoughts.

You're talking down on AFE who does intakes for more cars than anyone you mentioned?

BTW...I do have the Dinan Stage 2 Flash and it works like a charm. Yesterday I had the M Performance exhaust installed by the dealership (surprisingly cheaper than all the independent shops I requested quotes from). I gotta tell ya, if you have the Dinan Flash...you are doing yourself a disservice if you don't get the M Performance Exhaust or the Dinan Exhaust installed. I did not realize it would make such a noticeable improvement. The wheels squealed more even as I drove the same way as before. And the sound is so addicting.

Wow. Now imagine if you experienced real power.

[Sticky]

I wonder why so many folks are complaining about their prices. The Dinan for e93 CAI intake is $1299.00 while Gruppe M Intake is $3487.00 MSRP. BMW M Performance Exhaust is $1683.00 MSRP while the Dinan Exhaust for the 2009 E93 is $1600 MSRP. Akropovich exhausts are even more astronomical.

Anyone care to explain? Please don't bring in AFE or any of those cheap intake producers that make your expensive BMW look like a teenage hoodlum's car. Thanks for your thoughts.

BTW...I do have the Dinan Stage 2 Flash and it works like a charm. Yesterday I had the M Performance exhaust installed by the dealership (surprisingly cheaper than all the independent shops I requested quotes from). I gotta tell ya, if you have the Dinan Flash...you are doing yourself a disservice if you don't get the M Performance Exhaust or the Dinan Exhaust installed. I did not realize it would make such a noticeable improvement. The wheels squealed more even as I drove the same way as before. And the sound is so addicting.

Next install will be Dinan Intake and ditching the OEM runflats for Michelin Super Pilot non RTFs. Hope that the new tires will give me a mile or two extra MPG and better overall handling! Wish me luck.

Happy Driving!

By the way man, I'm curious. You say you're from Texas, right?

Why do you come up as Monrovia, California then?

[Viet Tran]

Yep. From Austin. I'm in Monrovia for the next month or so working on print and video projects.

"You're talking down on AFE who does intakes for more cars than anyone you mentioned?"

Yep, you're right, I am not a fan of these guys. No matter how much more intakes they make. To me, all their intakes are hideous and destroy the beauty of the BMW engine design. Just my opinion. No need to get testy.

"Just because Gruppe M has insane pricing doesn't mean Dinan suddenly becomes a value."

You're right. I just find it curious that people leave out other companies like Akropovich and Gruppe M and focus so much on Dinan. Seems a bit unbalanced. $1299 ain't nothing to shake a stick at and the AFE $295-600 price range looks delicious...until you see the rinky dink design. But more power to those who actually like the AFE designs. Just ain't my cup of tea.

[Viet Tran]

"You look like a retarded teenager discovering internet."

How would you like me to respond to this? Should I even acknowledge this wasteful irrelevant and rude comment?

I arrived here after spending timing searching for a particular question I had...that is: I wonder if an e93 ECU needs to be calibrated to take advantage of the Dinan intake. After hours of reading, I take it the Dinan Flash will take care of the adaptations.

"Wow. Now imagine if you experienced real power."

Yes, imagine if only I had "real power". I think I will wait until my warranty runs out to experiment with other piggybacks if I even feel like it. For now, the Dinan Flash is enough for me since I don't track or drag race. I just like the occasional urge for more acceleration when the road is clear.

[Sticky]

Yep, you're right, I am not a fan of these guys. No matter how much more intakes they make. To me, all their intakes are hideous and destroy the beauty of the BMW engine design. Just my opinion. No need to get testy.

I don't think I'm the one getting testy here.

Really? AFE's stuff looks pretty sweet to me, have you actually seen or heard it in person? http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...deo-sound-clip

You're right. I just find it curious that people leave out other companies like Akropovich and Gruppe M and focus so much on Dinan. Seems a bit unbalanced. $1299 ain't nothing to shake a stick at and the AFE $295-600 price range looks delicious...until you see the rinky dink design. But more power to those who actually like the AFE designs. Just ain't my cup of tea.

The reason for that is Dinan is the only US company out of the ones you mentioned. If you compare pricing to others... well.

[Sticky]

How would you like me to respond to this? Should I even acknowledge this wasteful irrelevant and rude comment?

Well first I'd like you to understand what a signature on a forum is.

Yes, imagine if only I had "real power". I think I will wait until my warranty runs out to experiment with other piggybacks if I even feel like it. For now, the Dinan Flash is enough for me since I don't track or drag race. I just like the occasional urge for more acceleration when the road is clear.

Then it sounds like Dinan is the right choice for you. This forum tends to have a performance emphasis and in that area Dinan lags.

[Viet Tran]

"Then it sounds like Dinan is the right choice for you. This forum tends to have a performance emphasis and in that area Dinan lags."

You're right. Very strange that Dinan would be even mentioned in this forum though from the statement you just made. No doubt that Dinan isn't the fastest baddest thing out there, neither did I imply that they were. I simply made an observation based on the original post about the expenses of Dinan.

I cannot trust Pro or Anti Dinan or Pro or Anti Piggyback people's comments...some say there is no problem, some piggyback users say their engines went kaputt...to many factors to take in. I can only talk about my own experiences with Dinan...not at any time claiming that Dinan is for everyone.

[Sticky]

You're right. Very strange that Dinan would be even mentioned in this forum though from the statement you just made. No doubt that Dinan isn't the fastest baddest thing out there, neither did I imply that they were. I simply made an observation based on the original post about the expenses of Dinan.

Because it is a BMW performance tuning forum. Of course Dinan will come up here and their products will be analyzed. It's certainly fair game.

I cannot trust Pro or Anti Dinan or Pro or Anti Piggyback people's comments...some say there is no problem, some piggyback users say their engines went kaputt...to many factors to take in. I can only talk about my own experiences with Dinan...not at any time claiming that Dinan is for everyone.

I understand that and your experience is appreciated. There are users here with piggybacks as well. Both have their pros and cons.

[Viet Tran]

"The reason for that is Dinan is the only US company out of the ones you mentioned. If you compare pricing to others... well."




This does not make sense. BMW M Performance parts would be inappropriate to bring into comparison if we follow this criteria. I looked at the complaint that Dinan is expensive, I saw nothing about "for an American Company it's expensive"...and I commented on an observation that I made about the reality of these accessory prices. That's all. At no point did anyone here or on other forums mention anything about domestic or foreign nationalities in the discussion.

To save us both time, I'll be the first to sign off on this topic. No need to beat a dead horse.

[Sticky]

"The reason for that is Dinan is the only US company out of the ones you mentioned. If you compare pricing to others... well."




This does not make sense. BMW M Performance parts would be inappropriate to bring into comparison if we follow this criteria. I looked at the complaint that Dinan is expensive, I saw nothing about "for an American Company it's expensive"...and I commented on an observation that I made about the reality of these accessory prices. That's all. At no point did anyone here or on other forums mention anything about domestic or foreign nationalities in the discussion.

To save us both time, I'll be the first to sign off on this topic. No need to beat a dead horse.

No it makes complete sense to compare US aftermarket pricing to other US tuners. Gruppe M stuff is high quality as is Akrapovic but there are better bang for your buck options from US tuners. Not to mention you don't have to deal with import costs, currency conversion, etc. Americans consistently offer better priced options than their foreign counterparts. Just look at G-Power for example.

You are welcome to participate as much you want. Dinan has its market. This thread is really about Dinan going against piggybacks yet it appears now he will be releasing a piggyback of his own.

[Viet Tran]

Because it is a BMW performance tuning forum. Of course Dinan will come up here and their products will be analyzed. It's certainly fair game.



I understand that and your experience is appreciated. There are users here with piggybacks as well. Both have their pros and cons.

I hope you understand the weirdness of your previous statment about how this forum is about "performance" which implied that Dinan should not belong in this forum, then right after this stating that "...it is a BMW Performance tuning forum. Of course Dinan will come up here and their products will be analyzed. It is certainly fair game."

The two statements seem to contradict each other. I am under agreement that Dinan's products will be fair game and should be analyzed, that is exactly why I chimed in about the high pricing complaints. Do you think that I made this up or am here to irritate people? There are much more expensive products out there that many people simply ignore and that is why I made the observation in the first place. Whether or not they are u.s. based is irrelevant to me.

[Viet Tran]

No it makes complete sense to compare US aftermarket pricing to other US tuners. Gruppe M stuff is high quality as is Akrapovic but there are better bang for your buck options from US tuners. Not to mention you don't have to deal with import costs, currency conversion, etc. Americans consistently offer better priced options than their foreign counterparts. Just look at G-Power for example.

You are welcome to participate as much you want. Dinan has its market. This thread is really about Dinan going against piggybacks yet it appears now he will be releasing a piggyback of his own.

If the whole topic hinged round comparing u.s. tuners only, and I was aware of this caveat, I don't think I would have chimed in. Next time, it should be made clear that the comparisons are u.s. companies.

The hypocrisy of Dinan's piggyback offer after this slamming of piggybacks is another topic. And it would be a mistake to presume I stand behind such hypocrisy or am a blind Dinan fanboy. I just like my warranty intact and if BMW won't honor it, then Dinan will. That's it.

[Sticky]

I hope you understand the weirdness of your previous statment about how this forum is about "performance" which implied that Dinan should not belong in this forum, then right after this stating that "...it is a BMW Performance tuning forum. Of course Dinan will come up here and their products will be analyzed. It is certainly fair game."

The two statements seem to contradict each other. I am under agreement that Dinan's products will be fair game and should be analyzed, that is exactly why I chimed in about the high pricing complaints. Do you think that I made this up or am here to irritate people? There are much more expensive products out there that many people simply ignore and that is why I made the observation in the first place. Whether or not they are u.s. based is irrelevant to me.

No I'm quite clear I think. If not allow me to clarify that IMO Dinan is overpriced for the performance gain and that if you want more performance or power they are limited.

Dinan will come up when discussing BMW's. So will other products and those products will often be compared against Dinan's offering. It all makes sense to me.

[Sticky]

If the whole topic hinged round comparing u.s. tuners only, and I was aware of this caveat, I don't think I would have chimed in. Next time, it should be made clear that the comparisons are u.s. companies.

The hypocrisy of Dinan's piggyback offer after this slamming of piggybacks is another topic. And it would be a mistake to presume I stand behind such hypocrisy or am a blind Dinan fanboy. I just like my warranty intact and if BMW won't honor it, then Dinan will. That's it.

I understand your position and like I said there is a market for that which Dinan certainly capitalizes on.

[Viet Tran]

Because you don't have to go with Dinan or Gruppe M? Just because Gruppe M has insane pricing doesn't mean Dinan suddenly becomes a value.



You're talking down on AFE who does intakes for more cars than anyone you mentioned?



Wow. Now imagine if you experienced real power.

Do you see anywhere here in your reply that says anything about the qualifier "nationality" in the discussion?
You even deepened the comparison without such a qualifier when you wrote: "Just because Gruppe M has insane pricing doesn't mean Dinan suddenly becomes a value."<------ this says nothing about nationality and should have if that were the issue.

This entire line of comments is misleading because of that omission and as such it is dishonest or unclear at best. And I would not even waste yours or my own time commenting if these caveats were made clear from the start. You can fault me for making such observations without foreknowledge of these caveats?

And even after our discussion about nationality as a qualifier:

"No I'm quite clear I think. If not allow me to clarify that IMO Dinan is overpriced for the performance gain and that if you want more performance or power they are limited.

Dinan will come up when discussing BMW's. So will other products and those products will often be compared against Dinan's offering. It all makes sense to me."


You still are making vague statements about comparisons. Which is fine, but people can't read your mind and will eventually point out other products from whatever countries that are extremely expensive. I can't believe we are still on this.

[Sticky]

Do you see anywhere here in your reply that says anything about the qualifier "nationality" in the discussion?
You even deepened the comparison without such a qualifier when you wrote: "Just because Gruppe M has insane pricing doesn't mean Dinan suddenly becomes a value."<------ this says nothing about nationality and should have if that were the issue.

I assumed you knew Gruppe M was Japanese?

This entire line of comments is misleading because of that omission and as such it is dishonest or unclear at best. And I would not even waste yours or my own time commenting if these caveats were made clear from the start. You can fault me for making such observations without foreknowledge of these caveats?

I'm really not misleading anyone at all I think most people here know which companies are domestic and which aren't.

You still are making vague statements about comparisons. Which is fine, but people can't read your mind and will eventually point out other products from whatever countries that are extremely expensive. I can't believe we are still on this.

I really don't understand your line of thinking here. I'm as detailed as they come when discussing the BMW aftermarket.

[Viet Tran]

I assumed you knew Gruppe M was Japanese?


>>really? Does the country matter now too? Good lord.


I'm really not misleading anyone at all I think most people here know which companies are domestic and which aren't.

>>that's great. I don't.

I really don't understand your line of thinking here. I'm as detailed as they come when discussing the BMW aftermarket.

>>You did not qualify your comment about domestic vs. international... So no you were not clear about this and if you just admit it we can all move on. I'm not a mind reader.

For god's sake it's here for everyone to see. Are really going to keep this up because it irks you that someone is pointing out something because he did not understand your post?

[Sticky]

For god's sake it's here for everyone to see. Are really going to keep this up because it irks you that someone is pointing out something because he did not understand your post?

I really don't even understand whatever issue it is you have.

[Viet Tran]

I really don't even understand whatever issue it is you have.

No ideA I had any issue. Thought I was replying to your continual comments. Huh?

[Sticky]

No ideA I had any issue. Thought I was replying to your continual comments. Huh?

We're having some kind of misunderstanding I don't understand. I thought we already settled the market Dinan appeals to and the other options? Maybe we are on the same page and it's all good.