BMW will not respond to AMG and Audi's challenge with an all wheel drive xDrive F10 M5 / F13 M6 - BMW remains "committed" to rear wheel drive

[Sticky]

Hard to take seriously what is coming out of BMW M head Friedrich Nitschke's mouth regarding BMW's commitment to rear wheel drive. Autocar reports Nitchke made the following statement, “Our philosophy in regards to steering feel and precision is that rear-wheel drive is the best solution. xDrive brings an 80-90kg weight penalty and the M differential is the industry’s best rear-drive set-up.” No disagreement from BimmerBoost here.

The disagreement is that BMW is feeding us their old rhetoric that they don't even believe any longer to avoid a refresh to the M5/M6 in order to compete with the E63 and CLS63 AMG facelift which received an all wheel drive option as well as the new Audi RS7.

It would be nice if Nitschke believed his own BS but does BimmerBoost need to remind him BMW does sell all wheel drive M "cars" today? Very, very heavy all wheel drive M cars? Need BimmerBoost remind him how absurdly fat the F10 M5 is without all wheel drive? Yes, there was a time when BMW believed rear wheel drive was the best setup and utilized it to keep weight down with perfect 50/50 balance but with the new models even in rear wheel drive form being heavier than some of the competition even with all wheel drive and the new M cars no longer holding true to the 50/50 weight balance philosophy why even hide behind the weight comment?

The reason really is that BMW does not want to spend the money to add all wheel drive to the M5. Mercedes-Benz and AMG on the other hand give the consumer the choice. Mercedes-Benz and AMG spent the money to develop one beefy looking all wheel drive system for the E63 AMG.

So how is it that Mercedes-Benz can give the consumer the option of rear wheel or all wheel drive while BMW hides behind weight gain in their cars that clearly are no longer lightest in their class while at the same time already selling all wheel drive M cars? Did someone at BMW forget they offer the M550d with xDrive all wheel drive? Why isn't that car rear wheel drive if the weight is such a big issue?

Ladies and gentlemen, there was a time where what the head of M is shoveling at us regarding driving pleasure and steering feel thanks to rear wheel drive was true. But with the criticism of the new F10 5-Series steering feel as is and the rising curb weights, this is nothing more than pandering to emotion in an effort to avoid responding to the competition. Good for you AMG, way to meet the challenge rather than run from it.

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[DFM]

That whole post made me want to puke. Especially when you mentioned the M550d x-drive. I had forgotten about that car "M" (lol) car. Apparently the X5/X6 also fits the "M" (lol) car philosophy.

[Sticky]

That whole post made me want to puke. Especially when you mentioned the M550d x-drive. I had forgotten about that car "M" (lol) car. Apparently the X5/X6 also fits the "M" (lol) car philosophy.

It's like they say one thing then do the complete opposite. I don't know what to believe from them anymore. I just know I have lost respect and will be moving to another brand ASAP.

[inlineS54B32]

I am not sure though. Why do we want an M3 (taking the extreme end of this) with All Wheel Drive? I would rather them put their money into a trick diff over all wheel drive. All the retards over at nonsensepost.com are saying "PLEASE BMW!!! MY NEXT DREAM M3 WOULD BE TURBO AND AWD" - sad part is BMW caters to these people (enough people scream and yell - they will get it).

I want a freaking performance car, not this fluffy cute bull$#@!. I don't see the point of an AWD car to be honest, unless we are talking 1000s of horsepower. I have driven many - they feel disconencted, and most of the time heavy. I even think it's ridiculous to offer a 911 in AWD unless it's a turbo (maybe). We see how a performance car can be in the snow with proper tires (M3 vs summer tire thread) - there is absolutely no reason for AWD unless you are TRULY using it for rocking the dragstrip.

/rant

[Black Sheep]

I just know I have lost respect and will be moving to another brand ASAP.

is the world ending?

[M3_WC]

I am not sure though. Why do we want an M3 (taking the extreme end of this) with All Wheel Drive? I would rather them put their money into a trick diff over all wheel drive. All the retards over at nonsensepost.com are saying "PLEASE BMW!!! MY NEXT DREAM M3 WOULD BE TURBO AND AWD" - sad part is BMW caters to these people (enough people scream and yell - they will get it).

I want a freaking performance car, not this fluffy cute bull$#@!. I don't see the point of an AWD car to be honest, unless we are talking 1000s of horsepower. I have driven many - they feel disconencted, and most of the time heavy. I even think it's ridiculous to offer a 911 in AWD unless it's a turbo (maybe). We see how a performance car can be in the snow with proper tires (M3 vs summer tire thread) - there is absolutely no reason for AWD unless you are TRULY using it for rocking the dragstrip.

/rant

For me it is really how the awd is designed and used. How much power is transferred front to rear. For instance the new 991 4S is phenomenal. It can be drifted like crazy. The R8 is another awd car that can be driven like a rwd car, hanging the rear end out around corners.

[Sticky]

I am not sure though. Why do we want an M3 (taking the extreme end of this) with All Wheel Drive?

I don't think we need an M3 with all wheel drive but less weight. With the M5 though the weight is already out of control and its clearly become a raw power car so they might as well give the option to compete with Mercedes, Audi, and Porsche who all have it.

Especially considering they already have bloated M's with all wheel drive.

[Sticky]

is the world ending?

No, just BMW's pedigree.

[Sticky]

For me it is really how the awd is designed and used. How much power is transferred front to rear. For instance the new 991 4S is phenomenal. It can be drifted like crazy. The R8 is another awd car that can be driven like a rwd car, hanging the rear end out around corners.

Two cars with more weight in the rear than the front. The new M5 is the reverse.

[M3_WC]

Two cars with more weight in the rear than the front. The new M5 is the reverse.

Yeah he had mentioned the 911 in his post.

[Sticky]

Yeah he had mentioned the 911 in his post.

Yes hence my point...

[M3_WC]

I don't think we need an M3 with all wheel drive but less weight. With the M5 though the weight is already out of control and its clearly become a raw power car so they might as well give the option to compete with Mercedes, Audi, and Porsche who all have it.

Especially considering they already have bloated M's with all wheel drive.

It seems like they are schizophrenic. One day we are building M-suvs. Next day we are saving M by not producing AWD cars. They seem to contradicting themselves a lot lately.

[Sticky]

It seems like they are schizophrenic. One day we are building M-suvs. Next day we are saving M by not producing AWD cars. They seem to contradicting themselves a lot lately.

Exactly my point, I don't get it.

[FRD135i]

I hate how they make the move to sell out and forget what made them the company they are. People bought M because they could not be beat not because they had plush seats and navigation. Leave that for the plush 5's and 7's. The company is getting to wrapped around being a european Honda. Please BMW go back to your roots and make some bad ass M's. They are making cars for the masses now and not the enthusiast.

[johnnyblaze]

I hate how they make the move to sell out and forget what made them the company they are. People bought M because they could not be beat not because they had plush seats and navigation. Leave that for the plush 5's and 7's. The company is getting to wrapped around being a european Honda. Please BMW go back to your roots and make some bad ass M's. They are making cars for the masses now and not the enthusiast.

Well said sir, lots of the truth.

[Sticky]

I hate how they make the move to sell out and forget what made them the company they are. People bought M because they could not be beat not because they had plush seats and navigation. Leave that for the plush 5's and 7's. The company is getting to wrapped around being a european Honda. Please BMW go back to your roots and make some bad ass M's. They are making cars for the masses now and not the enthusiast.

This just pretty much is the gist of it.

[CubanJJ09]

I am not sure though. Why do we want an M3 (taking the extreme end of this) with All Wheel Drive? I would rather them put their money into a trick diff over all wheel drive. All the retards over at nonsensepost.com are saying "PLEASE BMW!!! MY NEXT DREAM M3 WOULD BE TURBO AND AWD" - sad part is BMW caters to these people (enough people scream and yell - they will get it).

I want a freaking performance car, not this fluffy cute bull$#@!. I don't see the point of an AWD car to be honest, unless we are talking 1000s of horsepower. I have driven many - they feel disconencted, and most of the time heavy. I even think it's ridiculous to offer a 911 in AWD unless it's a turbo (maybe). We see how a performance car can be in the snow with proper tires (M3 vs summer tire thread) - there is absolutely no reason for AWD unless you are TRULY using it for rocking the dragstrip.

/rant

[JRCART]

Like I have been preaching on here for the past two years but all you Bimmer fanboys can not come to grips with, BMWs days as a performace leader are over. Like it or not people want awd high performance cars and some of the fastest, highest performance cars in the world are awd, McLaren MP4, AudiR8, Lamborghini Gallardo, Porsche 997.1tt just to name a few. Do the engineers at BMW have their $#@!ing eyes closed? The must have missed the new AMG E63 S 4-Matic with 580 hp at the Detroit auto show that is going to all but end sales of the M5. Need I even make mention of all of Audi's S and RS cars? You missed the boat this time BMW, shame on you.

[Sticky]

Like I have been preaching on here for the past two years but all you Bimmer fanboys can not come to grips with, BMWs days as a performace leader are over.

I'm not sure what you mean as this site has been the most critical of BMW than... well, anyone.

[tripledigits]

I am not sure though. Why do we want an M3 (taking the extreme end of this) with All Wheel Drive? I would rather them put their money into a trick diff over all wheel drive. All the retards over at nonsensepost.com are saying "PLEASE BMW!!! MY NEXT DREAM M3 WOULD BE TURBO AND AWD" - sad part is BMW caters to these people (enough people scream and yell - they will get it).

I want a freaking performance car, not this fluffy cute bull$#@!. I don't see the point of an AWD car to be honest, unless we are talking 1000s of horsepower. I have driven many - they feel disconencted, and most of the time heavy. I even think it's ridiculous to offer a 911 in AWD unless it's a turbo (maybe). We see how a performance car can be in the snow with proper tires (M3 vs summer tire thread) - there is absolutely no reason for AWD unless you are TRULY using it for rocking the dragstrip.

/rant

It sounds as if you have never owned an AWD car. I currently own a 335xi, and have owned numerous FWD and RWD cars in the past. One of them was a relatively low hp (at high 400s) Supra. I have yet to drive an adequately powered RWD car that is fun to drive in the winter, relative to an AWD car. Whether it's on cold tires in the summer, or in the rain, or in the snow or ice, an AWD car puts power to the ground so much better than 2WD car that there is no comparison. AWD makes for a wonderful 4 season DD.

[JRCART]

I'm not sure what you mean as this site has been the most critical of BMW than... well, anyone.

I recall several $#@! fights between myself and Bimmer fanboys and their always throwing up DTM championships and crap whenever I bring up AMGs current dominance in the HP wars, overall performance and the marketplace. Please dont make me start cutting and pasting quotes from you and other members.

[Sticky]

I recall several $#@! fights between myself and Bimmer fanboys and their always throwing up DTM championships and crap whenever I bring up AMGs current dominance in the HP wars, overall performance and the marketplace. Please dont make me start cutting and pasting quotes from you and other members.

Well it's because some of your comments are very one-sided. The DTM championship as far as motorsport prowess is a big deal and BMW has a significant edge there. I mean just look at ALMS for example and how BMW has done.

AMG currently isn't dominating the HP war as the new F10 M5 makes more power stock than a performance package M157. AMG had to release a quick facelift to compete.

It is true BMW is no longer overwhelmingly the choice and that Mercedes-AMG have gotten a ton better but BMW was dominant for quite some time. I personally have no issue admitting BMW has fallen off while Mercedes-Benz has gotten stronger. I also already stated I am moving from BMW with my next car.

[JRCART]

Bottom line, BMW has not done $#@! since the E46. The E9x is an awesome car , don't get me wrong, only problem is the is a company named MB/AMG competing with them and overshadowing their every move. New M5.....LMAO, Epic fail.

You only need to take a look at the Lightening Lap results to see where BMW stands in the global performance market and that is behind AMG....and Audi......and ummmmmm Chevy.....and Ford........and LMAO Jaguar

[Sticky]

New M5.....LMAO, Epic fail.

It's heavy but it is putting out the most power and BMW included a dual clutch while Mercedes was not able to even in the facelift. The all wheel drive option is nice though for the facelift.

You only need to take a look at the Lightening Lap results to see where BMW stands in the global performance market and that is behind AMG....and Audi......and ummmmmm Chevy.....and Ford........and LMAO Jaguar

Agreed they have fallen off but also remember the M5/M6 were the cars used. I fully expect a Black Series to run circles around BMW.

I do not disagree that Mercedes has much better higher performance options. I will be making a switch soon.

[JRCART]

Well it's because some of your comments are very one-sided. The DTM championship as far as motorsport prowess is a big deal and BMW has a significant edge there. I mean just look at ALMS for example and how BMW has done.

AMG currently isn't dominating the HP war as the new F10 M5 makes more power stock than a performance package M157. AMG had to release a quick facelift to compete.

It is true BMW is no longer overwhelmingly the choice and that Mercedes-AMG have gotten a ton better but BMW was dominant for quite some time. I personally have no issue admitting BMW has fallen off while Mercedes-Benz has gotten stronger. I also already stated I am moving from BMW with my next car.

DTM is Nascar with right turns, cookie cutter spec race cars with different grill badges....thats a fact. A DTM BMW is about as much a BMW as Kyle Bush's Nascar Toyota is a $#@!ing Camry. BMW has not done anything relivent with theirnroad cars in years and they keep taking steps backwards.